Aggh, . Winship, as I think was clear from my msg, my list *does* have concealed members, and I already use REV etc. to list them. Thanks for your suggestions, though. Meanwhile in the course of solving my problem, I've uncovered some arcana that may be of help to someone. A careful review of the concealed subscriptions at the web interface uncovered the following: 1. The concealed members had names of the form "firstname lastname [concealed]" 2. none of these had the "conceal" box checked. (These subscribers came on when the list was at a previous host. My _guess_ is that they inserted the "[concealed]" in their name fields out of confusion as to how to hide their names, and I never noticed it before.) 3. In any case, when I delete "[concealed]" from those name fields, check off the [concealed] box, and update them., the command Q WITH CONCEAL reports them properly. 4. New subscriptions, either at the web interface or by email (SET CONCEAL), are also reported correctly. It would be interesting to see if subscribing a new dummy "name [concealed]" <address> would again foil WITH CONCEAL, but I haven't got all night. -- ed --- Ed Agro <[log in to unmask]> http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/zamir-chat-list.html