I don't believe that this spam (or any) is at all like putting and ad in a newspaper. I see it as sending a mailing to a mailing list, which is exactly what it is. If I buy a mailing list from a company, and send mail to everyone on that list, then I am sending it to you, personally. If I were outside of the net world, I would buy a mailing list (or obtain one at no cost), and then send you a piece of mail. Let's assume it was an ad for something (the most common type, though it could just as well not be an ad). Since each thing I send costs me some money (say, up to 32 cents in postage in the USA), I would naturally want to target those where I had the best chance of a response. So, let's say I am in the business of real estate. I would target home owners. If I were in to chemicals for large businesses, I would target those people who might use it. It I were a conservative, I would target those who I might get to vote for me (I am not, thank God!). Now, in order to get these lists, I would have (short of stealing them) to pay someone for them or at very least make some sort of agreement for them. Many companies sell their lists to make some extra money. Some ask you (give you the option) not to be on the lists they sell (or "Make Available") to others, some don't. I don't think there is a law about it per se, but many companies want you to feel respected, so they ask you (it also avoids potential trouble for them). What they really are selling is the work they have done, which is twofold: they have put your name in the computer and they have identified you as having an interest in some category. They may even have more info: your age, your buying habits, etc... . Now, along comes the net. We do the same thing. We make mailing lists based upon some common interest. But, we are different. For many reasons, we make these lists freely available to anyone to use or abuse. Very few lists keep the list of people out of the view of their subscribers. So, your average terrorist, Christian Coalition worker, or C&S spammer who doesn't know about list etiquette (but does know how to forge Approved: headers :-) ) can, for free, and with very little effort, target the group they want to with whatever they want. And we let them do it. And we whine and complain! I don't like spamming, and I am very much against it. However, legal action is really very much a waste of time and will do nothing, in the end. The first thing to do it to clean up our own act. We need to make it very much more difficult for these people to operate while making the system more formal and with someone to look after the system. First, the system: we need to have a body that will look after the system and put rules in place. These rules should be specifically non-biased and non-judgemental. The purpose is not to censor, but is to protect the system from abuse by those who would bog it down with spams and other negative things like a zillion posts to blitz a newsgroup. This group can also be empowered to bring legal action on behalf of the sites that it represents. It should also put into place agreements with and between sites that hold that the people in charge of the sites must act upon information given it by the body so that the system is protected from spams. This would avoid situations of people saying "I don't care". Next, this body should formulate rules for using the system that each site would be required to tell its users about. Again, subjects or posts are not to be censored. This is just aimed at spammers. The body would have in its charter that the system is not a place where items are censored, and the body would be prohibited from making rules that have such an effect. Lastly, the body would put into place a clear statement of the goals and rules of the system, including etiquette and responsibility to guide people in their use of the system. While I believe the system should include newsgroups, starting with listserv lists is a good place. Folks, we also need to make it harder for people to spam lists. One way would be to require people to be signed up to the list in order to post, so at least it will discourage the lazy people (90%+ of those who spam) and protect our lists. This also requires more from us. We will have to ensure that all of the addresses for people on the list are the ones that they are posting from. Generally, this would not be a problem, but it will be in some cases. Also, perhaps a mod to listserv would be needed as some people post from clusters, and their login machine can change. So some sort of option to allow any machine in a domain to post where there is a same userid in the otherwise same domain. This would probably be useful anyway. Ok, that's part I open for discussion: can we talk? :-) ** ------------------------------------------------------------------ ** ** Geert K. Marien : [log in to unmask] (Bitnet: GKMQC@PUCC) ** ** ListOwner: AIRLINE, NODEINFO, RAILROAD, STAMPS, The INDIA List ** ** (All contents are my own opinions - unless otherwise stated) ** ** ------------------------------------------------------------------ **