On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:37:17 -0500, Winship <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Well, the [log in to unmask] address didn't work, I got in response a piece
>of boilerplate for those who are *already* using LSOFT as a host site,

Wrong.  Look again more carefully:

>From: "L-Soft list server at HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM (1.8e)"
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: LSOFT-ADMIN automatic reply
>
>Thank you for writing L-soft.
>Your request for EASE-HOME Adminstrative help has been received and
>forwarded to the server adminstrators who will take necessary action
>and will notify you of the completion of your request.  ...

The above reply came from the server HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM in response to your
writing to the List Owner of the DONATIONS list (which forwards to the
DONATIONS_REQUEST list) rather than to the list-address itself.  It is in
no-way a response from [log in to unmask]  Your message to [log in to unmask] is
also recorded elsewhere in our message archives:

>Date:         Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:02:22 -0500
>Reply-To:     Winship <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender:       L-SOFT Sales List
>From:         Winship <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject:      Hosting charge query
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>If I were to transfer to your commercial host site ...

but apparently has not yet been responded to by the people in the Sales Dept.
Your patience is requested.

>As to [log in to unmask], that is a list (actually
>[log in to unmask] now).  I thought it was the address
>of a department, and someone would reply.  Oh, it's a list.  We'll I don't
>know that I want the details of my questions about this broadcast to a
>list,

As stated in a previous/private email to you, the donations list is a list
which is made up of the (very small) committee of people (3 at the moment, but
the number fluctuates) who have the power to make decisions about what
donations will and will not be granted.  We use a LISTSERV list for this
purpose so we can publish only 1 consistent email address regardless of the
changing make-up of the committee and so that all committee members will
receive the necessary case information at the same time.  Also, the
information is recorded in the (Private) List Message archives as a normal
record of business.  If you don't wish to share the necessary information
about your situation and reasons for requesting a donation with this group of
people who could make a decision about your case, then of course you may
choose not to do so.

>so I sent some questions to donations_request-request.

In this special case, not a good idea.  This is an L-Soft Functional list.
The Owners of this list are site-wide server administrators charged with
maintaining our many hosting servers.  They know nothing about donation
requests and have no powers to grant donation requests.  The _subscribers_ of
the list however are L-Soft _people_ who are exactly the cross-departmental
decision-making group that you want to consider your request.  So do as I
suggested in a previous private email and write directly to the List-Address
as stated, even if it is a list, and not to the List Owners *-request address.

>Response:
>stock "you message has been relayed to listowner, if you were sending a
>command .....," and nothing else.  The listowner has not replied.  I reply
>to questions sent to listname-REQUEST for my lists, but I guess LSOFT
>listowners are above such vulgarity.

We have a very small team of people managing over 2,500 lists hosted on our
servers.  It is simply impossible for them to be individually knowledgeable
about each and every list and its nature and be able to answer in this
personal way.  They must rely on the automated response message.  For L-Soft
functional lists (such as [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], etc.) you need to reach
the _subscribers_ of the list, by writing to the address as stated publicly,
so that your message actually gets to the proper people.  In this case trying
to go around that process, just because you are an experienced List Owner and
you know about the special listname-request@... address is actually
counter-productive.

At L-Soft, we use LISTSERV lists in many unusual or untypical ways.  It's a
bit different but think of it as kind of a 'reverse' list (many -> few)
instead of a more normal list usage (few -> many or many -> many).  List Owner
addresses for our Hosting customers of course go to those customer List Owners
who do respond in the usual, personal way as each sees fit.  But L-Soft lists
generally get no such personal response from the List Owner.  You are supposed
to write to the correct Address as publicly stated so your message gets to the
(small) group of (list subscribers) who are really the people you want to
reach with your query.

>How does one get a personal response from someone at LSOFT?  Quite reminds
>me of those nasty telephone numbers where everything is automated, you
>can get only one of many recordings, no way to talk to a person.

You sent me essentially this same message of complaint both publicly and
privately.  I would have responded privately but I have chosen to respond
publicly in this case to demonstrate that personal responses do in fact occur
and most are reasonably prompt.  If you choose to submit a donation request to
the proper address I can promise that it will be considered.  Otherwise, Sales
should respond to your request tomorrow.

I will now go back to trying to be on vacation.  :-)

--
 __________________________________________________________________
 Ben Parker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . L-Soft international Inc.
 [log in to unmask]  . . . . . . . . . .  Chief Corporate Consultant

By the way ...

L-Soft's Training & Consulting Group offers its next formal public
training in Landover, Maryland USA
the week of Oct 25-29 (Monday-Friday) 2004.

Interested? http://www.lsoft.com/pubtraining.html