On 1/10/06, Francoise Becker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 10 Jan 2006 at 12:09, David Phillips <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > With mail-merge on:
> > 1. mail is going out just fine to nearly every subscriber.
> > 2. One ISP, verizon.net, is bouncing these emails.  We get a relaying
> > not allowed message, then a bounced message in our postfix logs.
> > Verizon.net is the only ISP that's bouncing right now.
> >
> > With mail-merge off:
> > 1.  We have no problems with sending email to any of our subscribers
> > 2.  Verizon gives us no problems.
> >
> > The only difference we've been able to spot is the difference in the
> > Return-Path header field.
> >
> > We do NOT know, however, if that difference is the actual cause of
> > verizon refusing us.
>
> If it is, then it's a misconfiguration on Verizon's part. HOWEVER, I
> don't think so because my personal email address is at verizon.net
> and I just tested it. I receive mail-merge list mail there just fine,
> with the probe return address and everything.

We have a test list that we were using to try and fix the problem. 
Could I ask you to join it so I can try a message, and review the
postfix logs?  I'll send the listname off list.


> > The errors we see in our postfix log, when mail-merge is on, are:
> > Jan  7 04:01:06 shelmerston postfix/smtp[3952]: E6B2C73E73:
> > to=<[redacted]@VERIZON.NET>, relay=relay.verizon.net[206.46.232.11],
> > delay=50, status=bounced (host relay.verizon.net[206.46.232.11] said:
> > 550 You are not allowed to send mail:sv6pub.verizon.net (in reply to
> > MAIL FROM command))
> >
> > Jan  7 04:01:06 shelmerston postfix/local[3930]: 68C7D63F66:
> > to=<owner-gunroom*[redacted]**VERIZON*[log in to unmask]>,
> > relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (unknown user:
> > "owner-gunroom*[redacted]**verizon*-net")
> >
> > Is there a reason that the Return-Path has to be changed when
> > mail-merge is on (that's what I don't understand yet.)
>
> The only reason NOT to use probes is to save bandwidth by sending
> bulk email. If you're going to use mail-merge, you might as well use
> probes so that bounce processing works 100% of the time (assuming the
> receiving MTA sends to bounce to the right place) instead of whatever
> the percentage is on non-probe bounces.
>
> Is there a reason it HAS to be that way? Well, from a technical point
> of view, it would be _possible_ for us to implement mail-merge such
> that it does not use probe bounces, in the same way as it would be
> possible for a car manufacturer to build a car without a seat belt --
> but would it really make sense to do so in this day and age?

I'm going to have to think about this, and learn some more, because I
don't yet understand the correlation between the Return-Path and
probes.  Are you speaking of the address probes in ListServ?  We
aren't yet doing that (partly because we're new to Listserv Classic,
partly because we aren't certain we want to enable Auto-Delete.

Thanks again.


--
David Phillips
Molon Labe !
35° 46' N , 78° 48'W
Lose Not A Minute!