Kevin,

What I really want is a "clean" list of addresses of the "nomail" subgroup
(or in some cases the digest subgroup).

I can easily handle the mailing if I can get a "clean" list of current
addresses.

Most people, I believe, excepting only the most dedicated, do not follow a
"nomail" list on a website as closely as a list that sends them regular
mail.  They may intend to go back and catch up and just never do.  Just
missing one day may cause them to miss an admin message. Or they may skip
over these messages purposely.  Whatever the reason, I support the right of
a subscriber to set his/her options as desired, but I also support the right
of a listowner to contact all of the subscribers when necessary.  I believe
that is an exception that should be addressed by L-Soft.

I send very few admin messages since I have a lengthy stated policy that I
manually send to each new subscriber and have created a website where the
policy statement is available to subscribers and nonsubscribers.  Now that
my list is nearly three years old, most interested people know what it is
about and not about. I also have a bottom banner that gives the addresses
for archives, website, including policy, sub. and photos, as well as address
and message for nomail, and generic address for listname-request.  It is I
believe quite successful.

Messaging to all of the list is just not practically available for my list.
And I wish it were available.  While I continue to like Listserv and
appreciate its superiority in the mailing list field, this one thing would
be my request to make it even better.

Barbara Passmore


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Parris" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: [LSTOWN-L] Emailing to NoMail folks


> Well the query you mention does what you say you want - give addresses
> just for people with NOMAIL set, but what you're REALLY wanting is a way
> for the lists server to 'send them all a message' rather than just give
> you the addresses, and it doesn't have a way to do that, so far as I can
> tell (unless your host site is using a DBMS facility to hold the
> subscriber listings, then (I think) you could do a custom mail-merge
> job).
>
> The mention of parsing is really about the only current option - you
> run the query at the time you need to distribute a message about a
> policy change, etc., then pass the query result through some process
> that converts it into just the email addresses, in a format such that
> you can paste them all into the BCC box of an email form, compose your
> notice, and send it.  You wouldn't constantly reconfirm this list, you
> would simply re-run the query each time another notice was to be
> distributed.  The onerous-ness of this process varies according to how
> often you feel the need to make sure you have reached (or at least
> directed an email toward) everyone listed as a subscriber (and according
> to what tools you're familiar with to use for the parsing).  There is
> the trade-off between that need, and the subscriber interest level - if
> they aren't following the list via the web interface (so they would see
> your notices within the regular list traffic), we may wonder if they
> really want to receive directed email about the list either.  So the
> snag is, how do you determine which Nomail subscribers are following the
> list, and which are not?  This question has no simple answer.
>
> But you might implement active renewal - force the subscribers either
> to be contributing regularly to the discussion, or to send at least one
> email per (however long you choose) to the server to prove they are
> interested.  Add a line like this to your list header:
>
>    * Renewal= Yearly,Delay(30)
>
> and the lurkers will get a notice once a year, with 30 days allowed for
> them to respond or be unsubscribed. As I understand it, once you store
> the header with this line added, then every subscriber (not just the
> Nomail ones) who has not posted to the list within the last year will be
> sent a renewal notice within 24 hours. This is discussed in section 4.11
> of the list owner manual, with specific reference to the Nomail status.
>
>
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 07/08/03 10:14AM >>>
> To extend this subject, I have often wanted to have an easy way to
> notify nomailers of changes in policy or new methods, etc. Yet with
> about 250 "professional" list subscribers who find it easier to read
> their messages on a great website that combines about 110 lists (not all
> Listserv) in the world on the same subject as mine, but still retain
> their posting privileges, I find it onerous to try to work up a list
> from the query "with nomail for *@*".  Such a list would have to be
> constantly reconfirmed anyway as people are always changing from mail to
> nomail and vice versa.
>
> I would hope Listserv would come up with a sorting command that would
> give addresses only for nomail people. It would be helpful to be able to
> identify and send messages just to "digest" people, too.  Is there any
> hope?
>
> Barbara Passmore