From: "Michael Shannon" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Eric's detailed (and somewhat amusing) explanation was posted to LSTOWN-L
> back in December.  You can find it here:
>
<http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0412&L=lstown-l&T=0&F=&S=
> &P=5045>

Thanks! I see that while I, in my innocence and desperation, made myself the
umpteenth re-inventor of The Kludge, Eric was correcting the design so it
wouldn't work. I do respect anyone willing to clean up a design after
deployment, especially when they take the trouble to appreciate customer
concerns. But with the new design, I still need a new workaround.

> The best option for moderating outsiders is to use the Non-Member option
> for the Send= keyword.

Unfortunately, I'm not only concerned with moderating outsiders: newbies,
and certain others who have shown a certain lack of inhibition, are also
included. For this reason, Send= Editor,Hold still seems like the best
general approach; I just need a way to exempt most of the list from
moderation.

The concern about newbies is that spammers are obviously prepared to abandon
email accounts anyway, and would be entirely capable of subscribing and
sending the spam as insiders. This seems like a lot of work, but the costs
go down if a large number of vulnerable lists are targeted at the same time,
from one account. The advantage of leveraging Other Peoples' Lists is still
too great, unless blocked.

Others might dispute my assessment of what spammers will do, but experience
indicates I had best be thinking a step ahead of them, all the time.

I have been looking at the description of
   Send= Editor,Hold,Confirm,Non-Member
as well. (I grabbed a copy of the Release Notes as soon as I was told we
were moving to 14.3.) But it looks as though that will probably slow things
down for everybody; I don't want to do that unless forced. These people have
been discussing these topics via email lists for over a decade; suddenly
adding a confirmation step on everything will not make them happy.

From: "Pete Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>

> How many non-subscriber messages are you monitoring?  IF few, then perhaps
the bypass is to
>
> SEND= PRIVATE
> DEFAULT-OPTIONS= REVIEW
> SUBSCRIPTION= OPEN,CONFIRM
>
> manually setting trusted folks:
>
> QUIET SET listname NOREVIEW FOR trusted_subscriber@host
>
> Maybe  there is a 14.3 template that you can update so that
non-subscribers are informed that they can forward items to:
listname-REQUEST (or some moderator) ?

If I relay something to the list, it will look like it came from me, and
some large subset of my subscribers won't twig to the real source no matter
how I label it. (I've been dealing with this group a long time.) We're an
industry standards group, and have to remain open to outside input. These
factors steer me away from Send= Private.

> And though I haven't read Eric's reply to your scenario lately, I wonder
if
>   Send= Editor,Hold
> and where you manually (and quietly)
>   QUIET SET listname EDITOR FOR trusted_subscriber@host
> would change the LISTSERV processing to be what you envisioned originally?

That is the variation I am hoping will work. (Sorry if my description of it
was less clear than yours.) The other change that goes with it is that the
list gets taken off the Editor= keyword, so it's no longer technically
self-moderated.

Can anyone tell me whether there are pitfalls? The important thing is that
the trusted subscribers be able to post without delay, but the few untrusted
subscribers and all outsiders be moderated.

I was able to test my original configuration (with The Kludge) before moving
the subscribers from the previous platform. This time, I'll have to make the
changes on a running list. Before risking it, I'm hoping someone can bolster
my confidence this will work.

Re-reading this load of somewhat finicky material, I'm worried I might have
given the wrong impression of my attitude toward LISTSERV. I was forced to
adopt it, by administrators who didn't appreciate security concerns and knew
so little about the product that their "default" configurations were
disastrous. A year later, the experience seems a bit like having had a bunch
of demons with pitchforks frogmarch me straight into heaven. It's a
tremendous improvement; I just need to get the details straight.

Thanks to all for your help.
Hal