At 01:46 AM 4/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>When I left the group, I continued to run the list as an act of charity.

If it was an act of charity, where does the "ownership" come in.  In an act
of charity I GIVE something away.

>Recently, my "friend", on the strength of a phone call from someone he
>trusts, gave control of my list, which I built up to over 200 subscribers
>with very little advertising, to representatives of a chapter of this
>organization without so much as a word to me.

Well, if you're no longer a member of the group (you say you left), then
what business of yours is it if they reclaimed their ownership of their
list that you'd done for them for a couple of years as an act of charity?
Sure, it would be nice if they'd informed you and thanked you for your fine
service.  But, such niceties are all to rare these days.

>When I protested and demanded that he terminate the list, he shut it down
>temporarily, but it's back in service now.

Why should he terminate it for you?  If it isn't on your computer, and
you're not a member of the group that it purports to represent, I don't see
how you can complain.

>I am loathe to involve attorneys in this, but I have spoken briefly to an
>intellectual properties specialist, who characterized the situation
>basically as theft of services.  I'm expecting a second opinion by the end
>of the week, but I'd like to hear what you folks think.

How is it theft of service if you weren't getting paid for it?  If you were
charging for it, then it is different, but I'm assuming you weren't.  What
value was it to you?  Did it help you earn money or something?  As to
second opinions, you can always get as many opinions as there are
attorneys....that you're willing to pay.  Also, the number of attorneys
with any knowledge or experience in these areas is mighty small.

>Background info: the organization is national, with chapters in most major
>cities.  The people who have usurped the list represent the chapter I was
>in, but at no time was the list restricted to members of this chapter.
>Indeed, some of my subscribers are from other countries!

If they represent the chapter that the list represents, and you're not a
member, how can you possibly have a claim?  Of course you could start
another list ....  assuming that in the time you owned the list you were
smart enough to have made a fairly current backup of the membership.  Also,
unless you've burned your bridges completely with the group, you should be
able to join up and then post a message stating that you've started another
list with similar interests, inviting membership,etc.

>I have had conflicts with the people involved in the past, except for the
>list administrator, so it's not like I pissed him off or anything.  One of
>them claimed that the list was being taken over because I published a
>series of private messages he sent to me.

Sounds like reason enough to me.  I figured from the first line that there
was some interpersonal crappola going on here.  o-)

>When I called to discuss this the first time, my "friend" justified his
>behaviour by telling me that it wasn't my personal list; he had given the
>list to the group.  This was never my understanding, however; if I wanted
>to change the name and/or focus of the group, I understood that I was free
>to do so.  I never signed any contracts for the list, but the lawyer I
>talked to assured me that the verbal contract and copies of the material
>published on the list would be credible evidence should a trial be
>necessary...

BFD.  So what are you going to sue for?  What monetary damages can you
possibly claim?  How have you been harmed personally or financially?  Sure,
anyone can sue anyone for anything....but lots of those get tossed out of
court immediately, too.  But the lawyer still gets paid, of course.

>My position is simple.  Even though the chapter of this organization is
>not entitled to challenge the name of the list, I would change the name if
>that would end the controversy.  However, I built the mailing list, and I
>think I have the usual property rights as the original owner.  I would

What property rights?  How did you OWN something if you ran it for free on
someone else's computer?  I can't see a thing that you owned other than the
intangible "ownership" any of us have in our lists.  We have control, or
power, or something like that....but I know I sure don't own the bits
stored on a disk on the computer that runs my lists.

>settle for having the list shut down and enjoining the perpetrators from
>using my subscriber list.  They are free to build their own list, but they
>have no rights regarding my subscriber base.

Once again, what is the subscriber base worth, and why?  It must not be
worth much if you didn't have a backup of it.  If you have a backup, send
it to LSoft along with some bucks and a contract and they'll put it up for
you with a slightly different name and then you have your "property back".
I can guarandamntee you that will be a LOT cheaper than talking to a lawyer
any more, much less going to court.

>Am I in left field here, or home base?

To me, you're in the top row of the right field bleachers, but are about to
topple over the back rail into the street below.  Why not pull back from
this silliness and get back to watching the game, or starting another list
if it is so important to you.

cheers

cyclops

Dan Lester
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In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.  Erasmus, 1534