On Sun, 16 May 1999, Ben Parker wrote:

> Come on Doug, there is no need to be insulting.

I will grant you that in what I said there was a tiny bit of
interpretation, but I don't think much, as it is based on what official
L-SOFT people wrote to me about a particular situation.  Wasn't meant
to be insulting and I don't think it was. I do not fault L-SOFTs
slowness to act as due caution in disputes between owners and subs is
needed and perhaps sommething would have been done eventually: will
never know as I took are of it myself.

> What owner will insist on paying more to have fewer subscribers.  It makes no
> sense and is completely unrealistic in our experience at L-Soft.

I don't think I said that Ben.  I said the list was kept locked so people
could not unsub, unlocked to add subs.  The list does not grow all that
much as the uninteresting people are unsubbed more or less on request.
The ones the listowner selects, however, must not be allowed to leave.  If
one of these people manges to get in an unsub while the list is unlocked
the owner immediately adds the person back to the list.  In addition, the
owner knows where the victims live and their phone numbers.  Maybe it is
unrealistic in *your* experience, Ben, but that does not change the fact
that others at L-SOFT know of it.  The last time I checked, maybe six
months ago, the same owner had the same list on L-SOFT; whether still
engaged in the same sort of activity or not I do not know.

> list-hosting agreement covers things like this.  No subscriber to an L-soft
> hosted list will be forced to stay on the list against their will (your
> scenario).

Yes, I am aware of that, Ben.  The value of the agreement, though, resides
within the observance/enforcement of the agreement.
>
> Sometimes getting them unsubscribed successfully after thay have changed their
> address 3 times and run it through 2 blind forwarding services is another story,

We all know this and I don't think I gave any indication that it was
what I was mentioning, that being an owner who *refuses* to allow people
to leave.

I was not trying to insult L-SOFT, Eric or Nathan; perhaps disappointment
at lack of action, but no more than that.  As I said, I took care of it
myself.      Douglas