Hiya,

Angus <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Betty, these are the best suggestions I've seen yet..

Thanks!  They've worked well in developing a rather cohesive community on a
sex list of all places! with shared values that revolve around being
considerate
(quoting conventions) and nonviolent communication (No Flaming), so they
should work pretty well anywhere that has somewhat of a stable subscriber
base
over time.  I started out online as an Op on Bitnet Relay Chat back in the
command
line interface days, so that's where my online socialization began.  My
list guidelines
evolved from Relay's core values (Be civil in public, and anthing that's
consentual is
ok in private).  Those weren't negotiatble, however as other problems came
up we'd
hash them out and come up with a consensus amongst list members as to how
to deal
with them (this list has been active for almost 10 years now, so most
guidelines have
been in place for multiple years and have been pretty muchly internalized
by the group).

>I very much like your insistance that subscribers are RESPONSIBLE..
>takes the "list mommy" stuff off your shoulder.. although some listowners
seem to like
>the power that gives them.

I still have to be the list "mommy" when people can't resolve the problem
themselves,
tho my list seems to take care of its self mostly these days *knock on wood*
I typically don't intervene unless someone is clearly out of line unless I
attempt to
jump in and diffuse the situation by reframing the conversation.  Another
thing
that I think helps, is a rule that states that one's opinion has to be
stated as one's
opinion rather as some absolute truth that anyone should just be able to see
(e.g. I believe, or I feel, etc).

>We've been very fortunate on our lists.. we have very few rules and each
of those
>few rules are necessary .. we've only had to put 2 people on REVIEW for
continued
>rule infractions..

I've had to punt a few people over time.  Maybe one a year on average.
Some have ended up going away and chilling out and then coming
back to be excellent list members.

I note from this discussion that several people are using review.
I don't use review at all except for new subscribers because it puts me
in the position of having to debate with them about whether something
is or isn't consistant with list guidelines in their posts that I'm having
to review.
Using nopost and describing what the problem was and telling them that they
have
to promise to keep their posts consistant with list guidelines before being
allowed to
post again gives them an incentive to comply so that they can post again.
ccing it
to the list lets people know I'm serious about it and have intervened has
been very
effective and members generally appreciate it.

>although all new subscribers are on REVIEW.. they seem able to
>come off it very quickly as did the 2 who were set to review.  We bend over
>backwards to be fair and not let our personal feelings about particular
subscribers
>enter into any listmanagement doings and the subscribers seem to know that.

I generally watch about three posts from newbies before I set them to
noreview.
I had to go to full moderation for a while a couple of years ago when one
abusive person
told me that he didn't have to follow list guidelines (and while I figured
out the
review thing so he couldn't just resub and start ranting).  I really didn't
like being
put in the position of having to screen people's posts tho.  It's not my
responsibility,
it's their responsibility to keep the list a cool place to interact.

>We do have to send occasional "gentle reminders" about things like quoting
.. but all
>in all, we can't complain even about that much. We do not, though, ever do
any
>listmanagement via the lists [except very general ADMIN: announcements]
which we
>find is right and fair.. and keeps meta discussions about list management
off the list..
>and keeps down the "why didn't you do her/him" crap via private email ;-)

*laugh* we used to do a lot of those metadiscussions about how to deal with
list
problems (some of which were a major pain in the butt) and I believe that
those
discussions are what helped to get the shared group values internalized.
Those types
of discussions hardly ever happen any more tho.. natural evolution of the
group I think.
If you're interested, you can actually read some of my more choice posts on
communication
on our Love and Relationships Page at:  http://www.topchoice.com/~psyche/love/

Out for now,
Betty