This was mostly written by one of my list co-owners in response
to an on-list msg about mail delivery problems.
 
Date:         Tue, 24 Jan 1995 16:01:23 -0500
From:         [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: Help
To:           Multiple recipients of list
 
> >Please check into this problem.  This is the second time this
> >happened.
> >
> >Thank you,
> >
> >Donna
> >
> >
> I get "kicked off" xxxxxx-L every week!  I have to resubscribe weekly.  I
> miss lots of messages as I am frequently out of the office when I am
> dumped.  According to the list managers, it must be a problem at our
> end.  However, I am not kicked off any other lists that I am on.  Someone
> else I know has been dumped off of xxxxxx-L and she is on another email
> carrier than I.  Is anyone else experiencing this frustration?
 
Yes, others (on xxxxxx-L and other lists) experience this frustration.  Bear
with me while I try to explain, AND present this frustration from our (the
listowner) perspective.
 
Your xxxxxx-L postings are being delivered to you over a vast array of
computer and network systems.  We, as listowners, have absolutely no
control of those systems!
 
Delivery problems occur for many different reasons.  Mailboxes overflow,
subscribers change jobs and don't UNSUB, network adminstrators reconfigure
their systems, and sometimes these systems just plain fail!
 
When a delivery problem occurs, typically there are several events that
take place:
 
   1) A message is returned to your listowners, that (sometimes cryptically)
      describes the nature of the problem.
 
   2) A message is returned to LISTSERV (the software the runs xxxxxx-L).
      LISTSERV will interpret the message, and under certain circumstances
      will act upon it by removing the source of the perceived problem (this
      is termed an "auto-delete".
 
What happens at this point involves some judgement on our part.  xxxxxx-L
currently has about 1800 subscribers who post (as you'll appreciate) maybe
20 messages each day.  At any point in time, we have at least 3 or 4
outstanding delivery problems (subscribers who can't receive mail).  We
get a bounce for EACH problematic subscriber, for EACH posting made to
xxxxxx-L.  Do the math - that's 60-80 bounces per day.  Management of this
dilemma is very much a volume issue.
 
Under category #1 above - we're caught between a rock and a hard place.
Postings can't be delivered because of a mailing problem - therefore, we
can't contact the subscriber either!  If we let it ride, we may only
receive bounces for a day.  On the other hand, they may continue forever.
We've chosen, under these circumstances, to inactivate (SET xxxxxx-L NOMAIL)
these problematic subscriptions, AND contact the appropriate systems
administrator at the site.  As you might suspect, some administrators get
back to us, some don't.  If we get bounces from someone we know to be an
active poster to xxxxxx-L, we're less likely to inactivate immediately
since we have a good feeling the problem is temporary.  Otherwise, we
have no idea whether the subscriber is "gone" or whether a systems problem
makes it appear that they're "gone".
 
Under category #2, we have little control.  LISTSERV perceives the bounce
as being caused by a subscriber who is "no longer there", and simply removes
that subscriber.  This is exactly what is happening to xxx xxxxx (see the
error message below).  The mail system at xxxxxxx.EDU is returning a response
that is indicating that xxxxx doesn't exist.  Why?  Who knows?  Probably only
their sysadmin.  Why does xxx get deleted from xxxxxx-L, and not other lists?
I don't have an answer, but I suspect it depends on several things:  the type
and version of LISTSERV software managing the other list(s), the size of the
other list(s) and the listowners approach to resolving bounces.  xxx's case
is out of the ordinary - she literally subscribes at the beginning of the
week, only to be deleted later that week.  Most subscribers experiencing an
auto-delete do so only on an infrequent basis.
 
From your point of view, you're going to know if you've been inactivated
or auto-deleted, if you go for a day without receiving any xxxxxx-L postings.
Your best course of action at that point is to send the command Q xxxxxx-L
to [log in to unmask]  That says "show me the status of my subscription".
If one of the returned parameters shows Mail=No, you've been inactivated and
you need to send the SET xxxxxx-L MAIL command to LISTSERV. If LISTSERV tells
you that you're not subscribed, then you've likely been deleted and you need
to resubscribe.
 
Yes, this is a bit of a pain in the backside for those of you who are
experiencing it, particularly those that experience it on any sort of
regular basis.  Please know that it's more of a problem for US, since we
have to regularly react to the multitude of bounces caused primarily by
unreliable systems over which we have no control.
 
I hope this explanation was helpful.  I fully appreciate what frustrations
an inactivated or auto-deleted subscriber must endure.  But all things
considered, I'd say it's a small price to pay for a free service that
provides such a useful exchange of information!
 
Maybe we can have some T-shirts printed for our next xxxxxx conference -
"I survived a xxxxxx-L auto-delete".......
 
Bob Quinn
xxxxx-L Owner
[log in to unmask]
---
-------------( Forwarded letter follows )-----------------------
---
 
Return-Path: <[log in to unmask]>
Received: from PSUVM.PSU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@PSUVM) by PSUVM.PSU.EDU
 (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6839; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 07:14:02 -0500
Date:         Wed, 18 Jan 1995 07:14:02 -0500
From:         "L-Soft list server at PSUVM (1.8a)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      xxxxxx-L: [log in to unmask] auto-deleted
To:           [log in to unmask]
X-LSV-ListID: None
 
The following  users have been  removed ("auto-deleted", in list  owner
jargon)from the xxxxxx-L list as a result of the enclosed nondelivery error
report. Noaction is required from you; this message is only for your
information.
 
List of deleted users:
 
 "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <[log in to unmask]>
 
----------------------- Nondelivery report (45 lines)
-------------------------Return-Path: <>
Received: from PSUVM.PSU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@PSUVM) by PSUVM.PSU.EDU
(LMai V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6837; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 07:14:01 -0500
Received: from PSUVM (NJE origin LISTSMTP@PSUVM) by PSUVM.PSU.EDU (LMail
          V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6835; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 07:14:01 -0500
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 07:13:55 EST
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: xUndeliverable Mail
X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:"
 
This delivery error is in a special format that allows software like
LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can
safely ignore the numeric codes.
 
Note: delivery error converted to LMail format at PSUVM.PSU.EDU.
 
--> Error description:
Error-For:  [log in to unmask]
Error-Code: 3
Error-Text: 550 <[log in to unmask]>... Addressee unknown
 
Error-End:  One error reported
 
----------------- Original delivery error (before conversion)
-----------------PSUVM.PSU.EDU unable to deliver following mail to
recipient(s):
    <[log in to unmask]>
PSUVM.PSU.EDU received negative reply:
550 <[log in to unmask]>... Addressee unknown
 
           ** Text of Mail follows **
Received: from PSUVM.PSU.EDU by PSUVM.PSU.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2)
   with BSMTP id 1069; Wed, 18 Jan 95 07:09:47 EST
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(LMai V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6561; Wed, 18 Jan 1995 07:09:46 -0500
Date:         Tue, 17 Jan 1995 10:28:22 -0400
From:         "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: RENT
To:           Multiple recipients of list xxxxxx-L <[log in to unmask]>