>cherished spots in my bozo bin You now will lose the insights of a very experienced, if irascible, listowner, and lose yourself the chuckles in the process. [Douglas, you got a whole forest of burrs under your saddle blanket on this one, or what?] Premise: Parents desire to prevent teenagers from driving. 1. One parent LOCKs the car. Car is still in running condition. Teenager can still sit in the car and even drive, if they know where the keys are, have a slim jim, and can even hot-wire the car. Lots of naughty activity is still possible, because the car was only LOCKed. 2. Another parent removes the distributor cap, effectively HOLDing the teenager down on the farm. The car cannot run without the distributor cap, even with the keys, and it cannot be hot wired. If you want to stop all list activity, you HOLD. If you want to just stop changes in the membership list, you LOCK. List activity continues. LOCK unequal to HOLD This is not a simple spelling error - it is a conceptual error. We would do you a disservice it we treated a conceptual error as a spelling error, and ignored it, right? Inflexibly wearing ones feelings on ones sleeve bodes poorly for list ownership. There are thousands of ways to miss something small and become confused. This is a very detail-based business. We are here to help. Those who don't care to help are not here. Winship was, in his own very special way, trying to help you. I've removed the soles from my shoes, so now I'm ready for your bozo bin, too. <smile>