Am Mittwoch, den 14.09.2005, 14:26 -0400 schrieb Wayne T Smith: > If you are interested in the convenience of your users, why not use > passive probes? The users never see them! Currently the only thing I care about is the convenience of my users. If they had a better user-interface, internationalization, etc. I'd have to answer less support-requests. Given the five issues I mentioned, the active probes are my least concern. Basically I included them as an example that Listserv is concerned about lists first and users second. The probes are a list-issue and a list simply probes every user, so multiple lists send multiple probes to a given user. Other products like mailman put the user first and probe the user just once. That's much more convenient from an end-user-point of view. One more example for lists first, users second: if internationalization is needed, every list-owner can provide his list-templates in a language of his/her choice. Imagine a user subscribed to a German, an English and a French mailinglist, who wants to change one of his/her options for each list. The user will see a German, an English and a French interface, depending on the list. Of course the user can be expected to understand those languages, otherwise he/she would not have subscribed to those lists in the first place... However, if it was a mailman-installation, the user might choose his/her preferred language and have the same interface for each mailinglist. To the end-user, that's much more convenient. Of course I admit that internationalization in a way conflicts with listservs templating-system, which encourages the listowners to provide an individual experience for each mailinglist. It is a conflict, because usually a listowner will be unable to translate his templates to several languages. So to the listowner, it is much more convenient not to have internationalization.... Michael Loftis praised listservs templating capabilites, but I see it differently. I suppose users to prefer consistent interfaces, which suffer if everyone uses templates consistently, and to prefer i18n/l10n which conflicts, as explained above. That's why I don't consider mailmans limited templating-capabilities to be a major problem. -- CU, Patrick.