Marc, The idea of a closed list is just that. The list owner does not have to add you just because you ask. If you were to forward a request from someone else, that does not mean that the owner will add them. The correct procedure for changing any information on a closed list is to send mail to the list owner directly. The owner can then make any necessary changes he feels are necessary. The owner could delete you as one ID and add you as another easily. As to why a list is closed, that is up to the list owner. It's his list and he can have it his way (just like at Burger King). For the number of times that the changing of USERID and NODE for a user are necessary, I think that ADD with the new name@node and then delete of the old name@node should be sufficient. As far as just changing your name without changing your address, ADD will just update your record. (If the list is subscribe=open and verify=store).