Another 2*10**-2 $ .... (personal opinions - can be wrong :-) ) Part I: Projects - like human beings - have some kind of course of life. It starts with idea and intent. Not all of them reach the next stage - procreation. A shorter or longer period of gestation follows and again some projects vanish (or get aborted). For some of that which come to birth it's also the last stage of their life - either they're born death or die shortly after. The time has begun when not only it's creator(s) but others too can see the project living, eventually growing, getting sick and sometimes dying - project's childhood. The others are indulgent with this child (and with its parents), they like it and they know that they have to be patient with it. The parent(s) worry about it very much, spend nights by its side and try to raise it to it's best. Many don't get beyond this stage, they stay childs, the interest in them ceases often the parents - after a last desperate attempt to make it grow up - lay it away. A few reach puberty. That's the time when others than the parents try to influence the project, when concrete expectations are pronounced ... For the parents this is the hardest time - they have nourished their child for month, even years - and now they must see that a) not all ppl. like this child and b) those who like it try to make out of it what they think it's best for the child. Time has come to let it loose so that the teenager becomes an adult. All that can be done is to give it a good start - or to keep it as ones child forever ... Part II - paralleles: LISTSERV - the revised one - was Eric's toy and child in the first place. Since it was nice and cute and useful others became interested in it. LISTSERV quickly grew up - maybe faster than Eric wanted it. On one hand you are proud that many ppl. are interested in what you've done - on the other you feel that's not you alone anymore who determines the course. I think we have reached the point where it has to become an adult - whether or no. I think that - for one reason or the other - most of us are no longer willing to see LISTSERV "grow up" and sometimes take it by the hand. Either (and I'm speaking of the "LISTSERV-Backbone") it can live on it's own or not. If not - then you still can use it as a "local" tool but nothing else. ... seen from a certain point of view you can notice similar things in other projects/products also. Part III - therefore: I would propose the following scheme: 1) there are two possible kinds of LISTSERV 1a) "official backbone LISTSERVs" - are in PEERS NAMES - CAN run network-wide (peered) lists - MUST take part in DISTRIBUTE - get Eric's attention - take part in a (semi-)automatic update i.e. if not automatic then the Postmaster guarantees that he/she will do it ASAP (the 5 mins) - information is passed between the LISTSERVs to check and maintain the integrity of the backbone - provisions are made for situations when routes change (!!!) or some mebers of the backbone are out of service for some time 1b) "local" LISTSERVs - are seen as local service of some sites - can't peer with the backbone (existing peered lists must be "un-peered" within a certain time) - don't take part in DISTRIBUTE - are not maintained by Eric (or in another centralized form) - run under the full responsibility of the local Postmaster 2) if we agree to "install" the OB (official backbone) then 2a) a set of "basic functions" must be agreed upon which all LISTSERVs must offer. 2b) the above named functions have to be implemented (integrity, update etc.) - if you still want, Eric, of course 2c) those who want to take part must agree to the update-scheme 2d) all LISTSERVs taking part are brought up to the same release within acceptable time (that's less than half a year!) 2e) non-OB LISTSERVs withdraw from peered lists within a certain period ..... it's long enough now ... Christian P.S.: Eric has done great work - I would regret if we wouldn't come to a solution and thus lose LISTSERV (see Part I) P.P.S.: we shouldn't forget that - although there are some similarities between us and some shared interests - we are different ppl. working under different circumstances. <CR