Meanwhile, Richard, because a large number of backbone servers do not keep their BITEARN NODES up to date and RICEVM1 was defined only in 8908, I had over 600 junk notes from various servers in the world in my reader this morning, and they keep pouring in. As you can see it's not just a problem of not having the proper tools, it's also a problem of getting people to update things. That's not a flame at you (it's not your fault) or them (LISTSERV is often a low-priority item for the postmasters), just a statement of fact. I have stopped updating EARN servers on the 1st of July. Turgut is now responsible for doing so. Unfortunately it took 2 months to the EARN people to XEDIT LISTCPRT MEMO, C/LISTSERV/LISTEARN/* * (and this after wasting 1 week of my time discussing changes to the contract so that they could use a name different from "LISTEARN", which they didn't like (but they didn't know which name they wanted either), and apparently eventually decided to use), C/the author/EARN/* *, and add one paragraph with an EARN copyright. Now this paper is being mailed to the EARN site directors, who have to sign it, mail it back, etc. When all of this is over, Turgut will be able to update the PEERS NAMES on EARN sites. Meanwhile, nobody is doing it, and I can only reiterate my recommendation to EARN sites to simply AFD to PEERS NAMES from some BITNET sites until EARN is ready to provide a nonzero amount of service to its share of LISTSERVs. Eric