On Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:29:32 EDT, Stan Horwitz <[log in to unmask]> posted: > Many systems here can now utilize Internet services. What does Bitnet give > us that Internet doesn't? > > If Temple drops Bitnet, it seems as if we must also shut down our > listserver. Our Listserv hosts several popular lists one of which is > Help-net which I run. Some of you probably subscribe Help-Net and know > that it is an excellent way to learn about Internet and Bitnet services. > If Temple's Listserv had to be shut down, our listserv lists could simply > be moved to Usenet. How would that benefit Bitnet only sites who cannot > access Usenet directly? It seems to me that it would be better to allow > those who drop Bitnet to continue to run their listservers so they can > continue to provide Bitnet only sites with information. Denying Bitnet > sites this information could entise some of them to switch to Internet in > order to receive the same information. I mean no diesrespect to Eric or > anyone else, but this policy doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why is it > necessary to run listservers only on Bitnet connected systems? And this is not intended to offend anyone, including Eric. The NJE protocol of BITNET is unique for a few reasons already provided, as is SEND, and a few other things. That is what makes BITNET BITNET. Alternately, TCP/IP is unique and being broadly developed all the time. That is what makes the Internet the Internet. Ftp is ftp, although new servers come often, including one now in development, based largely on wuarchive's which allows users to create platform-independent ZIP and ZOO, as well as Unix tar archives (optionally compressed). This. alone, largely reduces the keystroke arguments a few have discussed. Unfortunately, the "platform independence" of much of this is not available on VM. That final point is my single largest complaint about BITNET -- it is undeniably VM oriented (for reference, we are a VMS/Unix site)!! Stan's argument for alternate accessibility actually goes much beyond simply the BITNET/not-BITNET; LISTSERV/not-LISTSERV dilemma. True, Joiner has JNET for VMS (and it is a very reliable NJE interface). I've heard about NJE interfaces for Unix (although I've never actually seen one). We have been fortunate to have BITNET and Internet connections, tied together by a very nice mailer, to provide BITNET-like services via email for more than a few lists through a mail-based LISTSERV-like implementation. Additionally, we have been blessed with a partner to pipe a few of our lists to and from Usenet newsgroups. Indeed, going "off" BITNET may simply mean using a different LISTSERV-like implementation, basing it on mail, putting it on another platform, and going back into BITNET to service BITNET sites through a gateway site. Beside a (possibly) different address, it can be essentially transparent to your subscribers (with the exception of SEND-type file retrieval, of course, until that type of service is developed into the Internet). Conceptually, so long as BITNET focuses on being a "VM mainframe" network, it is a limited market -- one which is rapidly reducing in relative (if not absolute) size as the networks expand. This complaint extends to LISTSERV, which is exclusively VM-oriented (although I defer those complaints for now; Eric graciously discussed this privately with me previously). As sites move to multi-platform operations (away from mainframe mentality to embrace a TCP/IP-based minicomputer, PC, workstations, etc., local network with capabilities to take than LAN into the WAN of the Internet), a technology based on a given (and uniquely different, for the most part) platform (VM) which is quickly becoming less of a necessity is doomed. This is where BITNET has to look for advancement -- outside VM! Regards from my lectern; apologies in advance to anyone annoyed, George %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% George D. Greenwade, Ph.D. Bitnet: BED_GDG@SHSU Department of Economics and Business Analysis THEnet: SHSU::BED_GDG College of Business Administration Voice: (409) 294-1266 P. O. Box 2118 FAX: (409) 294-3612 Sam Houston State University Internet: [log in to unmask] Huntsville, TX 77341 [log in to unmask] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%