Mentors? Did someone say a magic word? Yes, sir, me, too, sir, please, sir. One does ask around, and one gets told "oh, running a list isn't a lot of work, not very time-consuming" and then POW! Right in the kisser. I got on the Net after five or six years of working with my own pc (as a "user" not a "programmer"); I ventured into listownership after almost twoyears finding my way around the net. In each case, I entered a whole new world, and am completely dependent on the kindness of strangers. You'll all laugh yourselves silly when you hear that -I'm- called on as a "network expert" by some of my still-more-naive colleagues! One thing that takes a long time to really internalize is the true fragmentation and divisions behind the nicely transparent- and seamless-looking Net. Eric uses the analogy of asking the Volvo folks for help on an unrelated problem -- the very nature of the Net hides from the uninitiated the fact that they're barking at the wrong tree. All of December I had a line noise problem, and the most frustrating thing about it was that it could have been (a) my local line to PCPursuit, (b) PC Pursuit's line from florida to Philly, (c) the local line from PCP's modem to the host in Philly, (d) within the Philadelphia host. I squeaked to each of the above, each told me they couldn't reproduce my problem and it must be on some other portion of the connection. I continued squeaking to all parties: the problem finally got resolved, and I *still* don't know who/what did it. And the awful part is, it could have indeed been none of the above, or some combo of small glitches in all. I accept the fact that there are some demanding dudes who have gotten soured by what -they- perceive as a runaround and so approach the truly helpful people with chips (excuse me) already on their shoulders: and those who have been on the receiving end of such folks also acquire chips in response. This only makes the situation of us honest seekers-after-truth a lot worse. 'Nuff said -- sorry for rambling on so long, but I thought it was important. --bayla