From: Paul Robinson <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA ----- I think you can do a trademark registration for a lot less than $2,000. Federal Trademark Registrations cost $175 per class registered. You can sue for damages on a servicemark or trademark even if it's not registered, but registration makes it easier to create a prima-facie case. Now, all you have to do is figure out either (1) where some places that are using the Unix listserv are located or (2) where that Greek guy is that wrote the other program. I'll discuss the issue of not making a profit, later. But the point is, you might be able to get some mileage out of the problem, at least in the U.S., at less cost, by doing State Registrations. These range from $10 to $50 depending on the state. The United States operates under a system called "Dual Sovereignity" which means we have parallel State Governments and the Federal Government. The most common example of this was in the Los Angeles Police Beating Case, where four policemen were tried for beating an armed robber for not surrendering when they asked him to do so. When three of the four police officers were found not guilty in a state court, there was severe rioting in Los Angeles for three days. At this point, the four officers, having been found not guilty were tried a second time in *federal* court for "violating the civil rights" of the individual in question. Now, a trademark - like 'listserv' - can be registered with the U.S. Federal Government, and it can be registered in any state that the product has been sold, advertised or made available. And sometimes you have to take a stand because you need to protect your name against usurpers. I was once doing a trademark search at the U.S. Patent and Trademark office in Arlington, Virginia. One of the other people doing a search there, mentioned that there is a company, Toro, which manufactures lawnmowers and other gardening equipment. He pointed out that the Toro Company is *very* protective of its name. They will challenge any registration of anything at or near the word "Toro" and they will litigate if they lose the challenge, e.g. even if you were registering a brand of bullfighting costume, they would fight a registration of it, even though it has nothing to do with their product. They've lost some cases and won others, but they have essentially made it unlikely that someone will register anything with that word in it, because the trademark search firms will tell them that Toro will fight and sue, and unless they are willing to spend the time in court over it, to pick another word or phrase. A while back I started using a particular tag at the end of my messages, and claimed it as a servicemark. The tag was special and clearly significant, yet people said that posting opinions wasn't a 'registrable service', and that a tag line wasn't registrable as a servicmark. Given that challenge, I decided to register the tag I used on my messages, first with the Commonwealth of Virginia, and then perhaps later, with the State of Maryland. I filed a registration with Virginia, which returned it saying it wasn't registrable. Well, I wrote back asking for an explanation as to why, given that registration of marks is 'ministerial' in nature, and that there has to be a legal reason for refusal, e.g. that my mark matches someone else's, violates the law (e.g. is obscene or immoral, etc.) or has some other condition that gives grounds to refuse it. Registration costs $30 in Virginia, $10 in Maryland and are good for ten years. I pointed out that the fact that I don't charge for my opinions is irrelevant. The Christian Science Church has registered its seal which is a circle including the words "Heal the Sick and Raise the Dead" and also has registered the signature of its founder, Mary Baker Eddy. That church runs a lot of services which are free. A filing with the State of Maryland raised the new objection of "Geographic Reference" in that the mark I am using contained a reference to a location; you can't have exclusive rights to a mark containing a location reference, like "The New York Times" if it had to file a new registration, can't claim "New York" as a part of the mark anymore. Well, the question is, what was my tag and was it accepted for registration? The mark, a service mark for "Messages Transmitted by Computer" is 6 lines long. See for yourself: Paul W Robinson, is "TDarcos ... The Standard of Immorality" or Tansin Arogan Darcos of the District of Columbia Territory of the USA "Grind our enemies into the dust, and drown them in their own gore." "Exploiting humanity since 1986." "Above all else...We shall go on..." _"...And continue!"_ - Servicemark Registered Commonwealth of Virginia (USA), May 25, 1990; State of Maryland (USA), August 16, 1991 --- Paul Robinson - [log in to unmask] ----- The following Automatic Fortune Cookie was selected only for this message: Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she had laid an asteroid. -- Mark Twain