>hi. i co-own a very busy list that has developed two unrelated problems. >the first is non-technical, but i hope someone can shed some light. ... >I think you're too kind. I would put this person on the 'ban forever >list' now - without further warnings. If you're using LMAIL for ... >Chris Barnes (409) 846-3273 (home) I think Chris is right -- you're giving the obnox too much leeway, and yourself too much work and irritation. ONE warning, perhaps private with a note to the list informing them that the flamer HAS been warned and no further infractions will be tolerated, perhaps public just to make sure EVERYONE gets the point. If the obnox does not heed the warning (mind you, you might have to take lag-time into account: he may have sent his objectionable posting BEFORE receiving your warning), off with his head. There are a couple of important points to consider in handling obnoxes: First, be sure your own behaviour is well controlled. Be careful in your wording both on and off the list. Do NOT stoop to the obnox's level and language. Do NOT overreact or carry the matter further than it need be. Make sure your reactions are calm and businesslike at all times. And ... don't try to negotiate or reason. Obnoxes are generally delighted to have an argument. Don't play into their hands by giving them one. If you come across as list dictator, so be it. (Also try to avoid discussing list administrative business off or on list with listmembers. You'd be surprised how much of a quagmire that can become.) Second, make it plain in your list's charter what the rules are -- incorporate something about staying reasonably on list topic, and state up front that untoward behaviour will NOT be tolerated. (A cheerful "this is MY list, and I am of a tyrannical disposition" might not be amiss.) If you can point to the charter and assert that the obnox knew the rules going in, you are coming from a stronger position. Third, be consistent in your handling of obnoxes. Don't give more leeway to one than you do to another. Do not give the appearance of being arbitrary in your decisions. Fourth, DOCUMENT. The moment trouble starts, keep all messages, both list and private, that are in the least relevant -- if you can show exactly what the obnox was doing, and how adversely his behaviour was affecting the list, AND perhaps the off-list complaints from listmembers, plus the obnox's own off-list notes to you, you can build a very good case should the obnox try to make trouble. Fifth, if the obnox threatens to go over your head in this matter, get your story in, first. Gently warn the sysadmin (or whoever is officially responsible for your list / listserv) that you have an obnox situation -- no need to detail, better to be almost off-hand about it: just make sure the obnox's attack doesn't come out of the blue. (Always a good idea to be on good terms with your sysadmin types at all times, really -- and it comes in VERY handy in times of trouble.) AND send a note to the postmaster of the obnox's service provider advising of the situation, offering to send all relevant messages to back up your allegation. In other words, pre-emptive strike. Good luck to you. Mario Rups, co-listowner, ARCANA [log in to unmask]