Well, as I said the other day, I'd traded voice mail msgs with Jeff Slaton. Today we finally talked on the phone for about fifteen minutes. He is very charming, personable, and professional on the phone. I acted like a newbie who has used the nets for a couple of emails and had looked at Netscape a couple times. Following is a close to a transcription as I could get with scribbly notes. All is his claims, comments, answers to questions. My comments in response are in [ ]. He said that he sends the email to 6-8 million people. He sends to 3 million addresses that he has in his own database, which he continually updates, and are over 90 percent good addresses. [that explains the 'extra' personal copies of spams that I've seen] He sends to "all professional mailing lists", which means he sends a message to "an electronic postmaster" and that sends it out to 1.5 million members of the mailing lists. Some have as few as 50 members and some have over 50,000 members. He also sends to 95,000 newsgroups or "electronic bulletin boards for specific subjects", and they cover all kinds of professional and hobby and recreational subjects. He charges $425 (U.S.) and will take personal checks (waits ten days to clear) or money orders or certified checks. I asked about credit cards. He said no credit cards because "even though I'm sure you're an honest gentleman" that some folks aren't honest and try to cancel the charge after he's already done the work for them. [What a surprise! Wonder why they would do THAT? o-) ] I said that it sounded like $425 was pretty high for just sending a message out. He said that he had developed "a vast amount of programming" and that it takes him 8 hours to do it for you. I asked if he does it from his own computer. He answered that I have to get a shell account with a local ISP and send him the money, the logon and password to my Unix shell account, and an email telling him what he is to send out. Then he does it "late at night when things aren't so busy, usually between ten pm and 8 in the morning". He emphasized that I WOULD get responses, and that even 0.1 percent would be 6,000 messages. He said he wasn't accountable for the response, but that I WOULD get one, and that if I weren't satisfied with the response he'd repost it to all the groups for me. [that would take someone REALLY stupid] He also said that if I knew of any groups that he missed, that he'd send the message to them personally. I asked about sending it to just groups that might be more interested in my product [which I didn't disclose to him "because my lawyer said I shouldn't yet" (and also because I didn't think one up that quickly)]. He said he could do that, but since it would take "lots more programming" that he'd have to charge me for, and since I wouldn't get "as much coverage to as many potential buyers" that he wouldn't recommend it and no one had yet chosen that option. He says that my post, if he were to do one for me, would be his "108th advertising message on the internet" and that "all of the other customers have been very satisfied". He claims to have had repeat orders already. I asked how he got into this business. He said that he was in his 40's and semi-retired from the corporate rat race. Now that he does this it is his only job. On the phone he sounded like a VERY smooth used car salesman....very polished and professional. Actually more like a junk bond salesman. Knew all the right words, was able to explain things less technically when I sounded particularly dumb. Please feel free to forward this to NetNews or whatever. And, since the "advertiser" has to get his/her own account, it looks like figuring out the "pattern" to Slaton's obtaining accounts is no longer relevant. At least theoretically, ALL internet users are now potential spammers with Slaton's help. AND, it seems that he keeps his nose clean with this new method...since _I_ would be the one in deep stuff with my ISP for spamming, giving someone else access to my account, etc, and NOT Slaton. In fact, I can't think of a thing anyone can get HIM for....which is just what he wants. cyclops Dan Lester, Network Information Coordinator Albertsons Library, Boise State University, Boise, Idaho 83725 USA [log in to unmask] http://cyclops.idbsu.edu/ How can one fool make another wise? Kansas, "No One Together," 1979