From: SMTP%"[log in to unmask]" 27-DEC-1996 00:57:28.63 To: FACSHAFERI CC: Subj: VATICAN2: error report from MAIL.ATT.NET Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 01:58:03 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at TEMPLEVM (1.8b)" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: VATICAN2: error report from MAIL.ATT.NET To: Ingrid Shafer <[log in to unmask]> X-LSV-ListID: None The enclosed mail file has been identified as a delivery error for list VATICAN2 because it was sent to the reserved 'owner-vatican2' mailbox. ------------------------------ Message in error ------------------------------- Received: from TEMPLEVM (NJE origin SMTP@TEMPLEVM) by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 3384; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 01:58:03 -0500 Received: from moau.mo.br.np.els-gms.att.net by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 27 Dec 96 01:58:01 EST Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 06:57:36 +0000 Original-Received: from internet !VM.TEMPLE.EDU ([155.247.14.2]) by moau.mo.br.np.els-gms.att.net with SMTP ID 0vdWEU.2CgPE8; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 06:57:30 +0000 Original-Date: Fri Dec 27 01:49:10 -0500 1996 Original-Subject: Re: Gerard, please! Confirming-MTS-Message-ID: <internet15410mo050003620657360> Tracking-Message: no Not-Delivered-To: [log in to unmask] due to code 01 "Invalid Address Specification"; arrived Fri, 27 Dec 1996 06:57:30 +0000; Supplementary-info " Destination cannot accept ISO8859.1 content." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Email Nondelivery Notice -- FAILED MESSAGE Original-Date: Fri Dec 27 01:49:10 -0500 1996 Original-Subject: Re: Gerard, please! Confirming-MTS-Message-ID: <internet15410mo050003620657360> Not-Delivered-To: [log in to unmask] due to code 01 "Invalid Address Specification"; arrived Fri, 27 Dec 1996 06:57:30 +0000; Supplementary-info " Destination cannot accept ISO8859.1 content." X-ATT-UNIX-Postmark: >From smtp Fri Dec 27 06:57:30 +0000 1996 remote from internet X-ATT-UNIX-Postmark: >From owner-vatican2 Fri Dec 27 06:57:30 +0000 1996 remote from VM.TEMPLE.EDU Received: from internet !VM.TEMPLE.EDU ([155.247.14.2]) by moau.mo.br.np.els-gms.att.net with SMTP ID 0vdWEU.2CgPE8; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 06:57:30 +0000 Received: from VM.TEMPLE.EDU by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 4045; Fri, 27 Dec 96 01:56:41 EST Received: from VM.TEMPLE.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TEMPLEVM) by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 3358; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 01:56:41 -0500 Received: from VM.TEMPLE.EDU by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 1773 for [log in to unmask]; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 01:56:40 -0500 Received: from TEMPLEVM (NJE origin SMTP@TEMPLEVM) by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (LMail V1.2b/1.8b) with BSMTP id 3338; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 01:55:34 -0500 Received: from enterprise.america.com by VM.TEMPLE.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 27 Dec 96 01:55:33 EST Received: from default by enterprise.america.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #9) id m0vdWCH-001w41C; Fri, 27 Dec 96 01:55 EST X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]> Date: Fri Dec 27 01:49:10 -0500 1996 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] (ARCC (Assn Rights Catholics Church)) Sender: [log in to unmask] (ARCC (Assn Rights Catholics Church)) From: [log in to unmask] (Michael K. Cronin) Subject: Re: Gerard, please! To: [log in to unmask] (Multiple recipients of list VATICAN2) Encoding-Type: ISO8859.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ingrid: Vatican2 is a first-class, forward-thinking list that certainly ranks among the very best. But I wonder whether we serve the cause of democratization by excluding those who also "give a damn" about the church but come at it from a different angle. I can appreciate the argument that "we shouldn't have to justify our very existence". At the same time if we're going to be successful we're going to have to mix with and "sell" our views on democratization to those who think differently. At the risk of being judgmental, I thought I saw a good man in Gerard, an intensely caring Catholic, someone who wanted to learn more about Vatican II as well as contribute some of his own thinking from his own background. Vatican2 argues cogently for more diversity, tolerance, and fresh thinking in the church -- yet demands a certain conformity internally. Shouldn't the groundrules be loosened up a bit so that we can attract, keep, and influence the Gerards of the world? It would seem to be in the interests of Vatican2. Mike Cronin Ormond Beach, FL