At 04:42 PM 4/13/97 +0200, you wrote: >On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:29:41 -0600 Dan Lester <[log in to unmask]> said: > >>Words-L has had ftf meetings and tshirts since 91. We just do it >>ourselves. Never thought to even ask Eric for help on it. Candidly, I >>can't see as how it would be worthwhile to him, since the people on >>blues-l aren't the ones who buy the software. > >True, but that's not the way it works :-) The general idea is to give >shirts to people who will actually wear them. Sure, you can give a shirt >to a manager at a convention and it will make a one-time impression and >end up in a closet, because it kind of clashes with the suit and tie. Agree with all that. I'm just suggesting that even if 500 folks wear bluesl/listerv tshirts to every place on campus and every local users group and whatever, it stillwon't mean diddly to the folks who buy/license the software. I know that you, Eric, are all too well aware of the idiots in computer management positions around the world who went from LISTSERV to other lame products to "save money" or because "it came from bitnet" or other BS political or pseudoeconomic reasons. We know it cost them money in the staff support areas that none of us have enough money for. But they're too stupid to figure that out in all too many cases. Fortunately our folks here at BSU were smarter than that. Also, I'll still maintain that the personal relationships with the other folks around the net and "what Joe does over at XYZ corp and Bill does at ABC Univ" are much more important. There aren't very many computer managers around in touch enough to know or care what mail or list processing software is used....they leave that to lower level guys .... who make recs taht still get overruled by beancounters. Am I a cynical old fart? yup. So, what's new? o-) >people a brochure. If on the other hand you give the shirts to people who >actually wear them, their managers, neighbours and so on will be exposed >to the brand/logo/whatever. Bonus points if the wearer is a >software-buying manager, but this is not necessary. I do agree however >that a record company would draw more benefit from BLUES-L shirts than >L-Soft. Yup. And I'll continue to disagree with the idea that so many list members are actually techies. Yeah, that was true in 88 or 92 or even 94, but not now. After all, if there were so many techies would lists, including this one, be buried in "i don't know how to unsub so take me off this damn list" crap? And the ones that can't figure out replying publicly from privately, that think all email software is the same, that it all works like theirs, that insist you can have spaces in user names on the internet, etc, etc, etc? o-) cheers cyclops Dan Lester [log in to unmask] In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. Erasmus, 1534