it may be just me, but this seems just more to confuse the subscriber. i mean, sometimes it seems a full time job explaining listname@... listserv@... , listname-request@... , owner-listname@..., and no, listname-request@... on majordomo is not the same as listname-request@... on listserv, and for listproc that should be... if we have trouble getting them to distinguish between the list address and the listserv address, because they insist on calling the list a listserv, will there not be more confusion with this? for listserv has it not always been that listname-request@... is for getting in touch with a live body rather than a computer program, and this is exactly the opposite? douglas