On 8 Oct 98 at 20:32, Joan Korenman wrote: > Over and over again, successful pioneering products have had > their brand name adopted as a noun: kleenex, xerox, scotch tape, > cellophane, etc. So why not listserv? The uppercase version would > still refer to the brand name (as with Kleenex and Xerox), while the > lowercase version would simply refer to an email forum. I feel like > a heretic, but I do think there's a lot to be said for this usage. Unfortunately, the Law does not agree with you. If companies such as L-Soft, Xerox, etc, do not take steps to enforce their trademarks, then they LOSE them. If you go to a restaurant that serves Pepsi and you ask for a "coke", your server will ask you "Is Pepsi OK?" -- it isn't that they're being picky, it's because they are REQUIRED to (plus there are people like me who will say "never mind, I'll take a ginger ale" <g>). And, even setting the law aside, the companies that make the products you mention don't appreciate the use of the trademark as a generic. Neither Xerox nor Kodak appreciate having copy machines referred to as "xerox machines"; neither Kleenex nor Puffs appreciate the use of "kleenex" over "facial tissues". And when I see a substandard e-mail list server being referred to as a "listserv" it makes me wince in pain. How would you like it if someone called Monica Lewinsky a "joan" because you're the best woman in the world, so I'm gonna start calling all women "joans" :-) Painful, ain't it? Of course, the case you're talking about, referring to a *list* as a "listserv" is even more inappropriate, because it's not even correct when you're referring to a LISTSERV(R) list. A list is a list, a list server is not a single list. If you write to tech support and tell us your LISTSERV is not working, when it's really your list that's having problems, then we're going to waste a lot of time diagnosing the wrong problem. Just like you wouldn't go to the mechanic and tell him your car isn't running when it's really the power windows that aren't working. Francoise