LSTSRV-L Archives

LISTSERV Site Administrators' Forum

LSTSRV-L

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Eric Thomas <[log in to unmask]>
Tue, 16 Mar 1993 15:42:23 +0100
text/plain (73 lines)
In the last few months, enough sites  have dropped out of the backbone or
announced their  intent to  do so in  the near future  to put  the entire
backbone and  at least two  BITNET regions in  jeopardy. In one  of these
regions  the  impact  has  been  such  that  a  core  site  is  seriously
considering  leaving the  network if  the problem  cannot be  solved. The
reasons most often given, from most to least common, are:
 
1. We have no time to keep BITEARN  NODES up to date, and your monitor is
   wasting more  of our time  every week with  a new complaint  about our
   tables.
 
2. Management decided to dump VM.
 
3. DISTRIBUTE takes too much CPU time, and we haven't got time to install
   1.7f beta or LMail to cut both CPU bills in 3.
 
4. We haven't got time to install LMail or R2.10.
 
5. Management decided to keep VM, but leave BITNET.
 
Sites which pick up the corresponding  load have been complaining about a
serious design flaw in  the backbone - that you have  no control over the
traffic you get.  While the problem is real and  serious, the design flaw
is elsewhere  - you have no  control over the non-DISTRIBUTE  traffic you
get. When  a leaf site leaves  the backbone because they  haven't got the
manpower to install new  tables once a month, the sites on  the way get a
lot  more RSCS  traffic. Those  which also  run LISTSERV  see this  as an
increase in DISTRIBUTE  traffic, which they would like to  be able to say
"no thanks" to.  However, the hard facts  are that this is  not such much
DISTRIBUTE  traffic as  RSCS  traffic. If  you say  "no  thanks" to  this
DISTRIBUTE traffic, you still get the same pile of RSCS files to the leaf
node; the  difference is that  you also get  the same amount  of incoming
files on  your upstream node, which  costs you MORE resources  to pull in
(assuming 1.7f vs RSCS+VMNET).
 
Unfortunately this scenario has repeated itself  a number of time. A leaf
node  drops out  to avoid  having to  update tables.  The site  behind it
identifies  the extra  load as  DISTRIBUTE  traffic due  to its  backbone
status, and refuses  to believe my explanations, demanding  to be removed
from the backbone as they think this will remove this extra traffic. So I
remove them  as well,  but their  load only  increases. That's  when they
start talking about leaving BITNET.
 
With the formal/legal organization we have, there are two things which we
can do about  such problems. First, you have to  remember that, while the
CREN charter requires  you to let others connect through  your system, it
certainly doesn't  require you to let  any number of sites  connect under
the  conditions of  their choice.  If a  particular site  is causing  you
serious operational problems for what  appears to be unjustified reasons,
you can  put pressure  on them to  stay on the  backbone or  find another
connection point. That  may lead them to leave BITNET  and lose LISTSERV,
but after all the  problem is on their end - not yours.  In fact, you may
find that  if you  approach them  with a  cooperative proposal  ("we will
update your  tables if  you want,  it only  takes 5  minutes and  we have
procedures  to do  that"), their  desire to  stay off  the backbone  will
vanish in a matter of seconds :-)
 
That was the first approach, something that requires a bit of talking and
maybe some lobbying in all corners of the network. The second approach is
a change I am going to make to 1.7f to help relieve transit sites: if you
run LISTSERV, you  will now have to accept  responsibility for deliveries
to your  local node users.  That is, the leaf  sites which drop  out will
start getting DISTRIBUTE  jobs for all users on the  LISTSERV host. Since
the  local nodeid  is  a configuration  constant, they  will  be able  to
deliver without  problem even  if their  tables date back  to 88.  If the
version of  LISTSERV they are  running is too slow  or buggy or  if their
server is  only logged on  every other day, that  will just give  them an
incentive to clean up  their own house and not depend on  the rest of the
world  to take  care of  their  problems for  them. This  change will  be
implemented in beta 1.7f-7 which I will probably release tomorrow.
 
  Eric

ATOM RSS1 RSS2