At 04:42 PM 4/13/97 +0200, you wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:29:41 -0600 Dan Lester <[log in to unmask]> said:
>
>>Words-L  has had  ftf  meetings and  tshirts  since 91.  We  just do  it
>>ourselves. Never  thought to even ask  Eric for help on  it. Candidly, I
>>can't see  as how  it would be  worthwhile to him,  since the  people on
>>blues-l aren't the ones who buy the software.
>
>True, but  that's not the way  it works :-)  The general idea is  to give
>shirts to people who will actually wear  them. Sure, you can give a shirt
>to a manager at  a convention and it will make  a one-time impression and
>end up in a closet, because it kind  of clashes with the suit and tie.

Agree with all that.  I'm just suggesting that even if 500 folks wear
bluesl/listerv tshirts to every place on campus and every local users group
and whatever, it stillwon't mean diddly to the folks who buy/license the
software.  I know that you, Eric, are all too well aware of the idiots in
computer management positions around the world who went from LISTSERV to
other lame products to "save money" or because "it came from bitnet" or
other BS political or pseudoeconomic reasons.  We know it cost them money
in the staff support areas that none of us have enough money for.  But
they're too stupid to figure that out in all too many cases.  Fortunately
our folks here at BSU were smarter than that.

Also, I'll still maintain that the personal relationships with the other
folks around the net and "what Joe does over at XYZ corp and Bill does at
ABC Univ" are much more important.  There aren't very many computer
managers around in touch enough to know or care what mail or list
processing software is used....they leave that to lower level guys ....
who make recs taht still get overruled by beancounters.

Am I a cynical old fart?  yup.  So, what's new?  o-)

>people a brochure. If on the other hand you give the shirts to people who
>actually wear them, their managers, neighbours  and so on will be exposed
>to   the  brand/logo/whatever.   Bonus  points   if  the   wearer  is   a
>software-buying manager,  but this is  not necessary. I do  agree however
>that a  record company would draw  more benefit from BLUES-L  shirts than
>L-Soft.

Yup.  And I'll continue to disagree with the idea that so many list members
are actually techies.  Yeah, that was true in 88 or 92 or even 94, but not
now.  After all, if there were so many techies would lists, including this
one, be buried in "i don't know how to unsub so take me off this damn list"
crap?  And the ones that can't figure out replying publicly from privately,
that think all email software is the same, that it all works like theirs,
that insist you can have spaces in user names on the internet, etc, etc,
etc?   o-)

cheers

cyclops

Dan Lester
[log in to unmask]
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.  Erasmus, 1534