On Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:29:32 EDT, Stan Horwitz <[log in to unmask]> posted:
> Many systems here can now utilize Internet services.  What does Bitnet give
> us that Internet doesn't?
>
> If Temple drops Bitnet, it seems as if we must also shut down our
> listserver.  Our Listserv hosts several popular lists one of which is
> Help-net which I run.  Some of you probably subscribe Help-Net and know
> that it is an excellent way to learn about Internet and Bitnet services.
> If Temple's Listserv had to be shut down, our listserv lists could simply
> be moved to Usenet.  How would that benefit Bitnet only sites who cannot
> access Usenet directly?  It seems to me that it would be better to allow
> those who drop Bitnet to continue to run their listservers so they can
> continue to provide Bitnet only sites with information.  Denying Bitnet
> sites this information could entise some of them to switch to Internet in
> order to receive the same information.  I mean no diesrespect to Eric or
> anyone else, but this policy doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Why is it
> necessary to run listservers only on Bitnet connected systems?
 
And this is not intended to offend anyone, including Eric.  The NJE
protocol of BITNET is unique for a few reasons already provided, as is
SEND, and a few other things.  That is what makes BITNET BITNET.
Alternately, TCP/IP is unique and being broadly developed all the time.
That is what makes the Internet the Internet.
 
Ftp is ftp, although new servers come often, including one now in
development, based largely on wuarchive's which allows users to create
platform-independent ZIP and ZOO, as well as Unix tar archives (optionally
compressed).  This. alone, largely reduces the keystroke arguments a few
have discussed.  Unfortunately, the "platform independence" of much of this
is not available on VM.
 
That final point is my single largest complaint about BITNET -- it is
undeniably VM oriented (for reference, we are a VMS/Unix site)!!  Stan's
argument for alternate accessibility actually goes much beyond simply the
BITNET/not-BITNET; LISTSERV/not-LISTSERV dilemma.  True, Joiner has JNET
for VMS (and it is a very reliable NJE interface).  I've heard about NJE
interfaces for Unix (although I've never actually seen one).  We have been
fortunate to have BITNET and Internet connections, tied together by a very
nice mailer, to provide BITNET-like services via email for more than a few
lists through a mail-based LISTSERV-like implementation.  Additionally, we
have been blessed with a partner to pipe a few of our lists to and from
Usenet newsgroups.
 
Indeed, going "off" BITNET may simply mean using a different LISTSERV-like
implementation, basing it on mail, putting it on another platform, and
going back into BITNET to service BITNET sites through a gateway site.
Beside a (possibly) different address, it can be essentially transparent to
your subscribers (with the exception of SEND-type file retrieval, of
course, until that type of service is developed into the Internet).
 
Conceptually, so long as BITNET focuses on being a "VM mainframe" network,
it is a limited market -- one which is rapidly reducing in relative (if not
absolute) size as the networks expand.  This complaint extends to LISTSERV,
which is exclusively VM-oriented (although I defer those complaints for
now; Eric graciously discussed this privately with me previously).
 
As sites move to multi-platform operations (away from mainframe mentality
to embrace a TCP/IP-based minicomputer, PC, workstations, etc., local
network with capabilities to take than LAN into the WAN of the Internet), a
technology based on a given (and uniquely different, for the most part)
platform (VM) which is quickly becoming less of a necessity is doomed.
This is where BITNET has to look for advancement -- outside VM!
 
Regards from my lectern; apologies in advance to anyone annoyed,   George
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George D. Greenwade, Ph.D.                            Bitnet:  BED_GDG@SHSU
Department of Economics and Business Analysis         THEnet: SHSU::BED_GDG
College of Business Administration                    Voice: (409) 294-1266
P. O. Box 2118                                        FAX:   (409) 294-3612
Sam Houston State University              Internet:        [log in to unmask]
Huntsville, TX 77341                      [log in to unmask]
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