On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:38:41 -0400, Jeff Kell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>(1) Web interface, not logged in as anyone, subscribers corner, show 'All lists' tells me "There are no public lists on this server. Please Log in to manage your list subscriptions."  That's not correct.

Actually it is.  LISTSERV considers it a violation of its security to reveal
any kind of "list of lists" to unauthorized ("not logged in as anyone")
persons.  Please remember that, by design, "Subscriber's Corner" is intended
for Subscribers to manage their subscription(s) to list(s) on the server
that they are already subscribed to.  To accomplish this it is necessary for
the Subscriber to login and authenticate themselves.

"Subscriber's Corner" is not, and never has been a page/place where
unidentified ("not logged in as anyone" and/or non-subscriber) persons may
visit to find a "list of lists" they might be interested in joining (or
spamming).  

This seems to be a huge misunderstanding about LISTSERV ever since
"Subscriber's Corner" appeared as part of the www interface.  This issue has
been much discussed previously on this list and LSTOWN-L.  A search of the
archives will produce many messages on this topic.

>The current manual seems to even imply that the Kludge is back and acceptable (?)

The List Header Keyword reference section is current as of 30 June 2005:

  http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8e/sitemgr/listkeyw.html

See http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8e/sitemgr/listkeyw.html#kSend 
for more details.


>   FOO-LIST contains
>>  Subscription= Open,Confirm
>>  Send= Editor,Hold       Editor= [log in to unmask],(FOO-LIST)
>
>and this would translate into what 14.4 equivalent?  

Subscription= Open,Confirm  (this setting is not relevant to your question)

Send= Public,confirm,non-member
Default-Options= Review          (this is required!)
Editor= [log in to unmask]

Subscribers can post freely (unless otherwise placed on review, etc.)

Note also that new subscriber's first post will also go to Editor who must
then SET the subscriber to NOREVIEW to allow further unmoderated postings.
This prevents willful hit/run spammers from subscribing, posting, unsubing.

Non-subscribers must first self-confirm their own message (this step,
introduced in 14.3 and continuing in 14.4, eliminates zombie spam servers
and stops most spam msgs from going to Editor).  Then, if/when the
non-subscriber completes the self-confirm, the message then goes to the
Editor for review.  If the editor OK's the message, then it will go to the
list (with the normal 10 min spam delay for non-subscriber msgs).  If the
editor does not OK it, of course it dies.

This is slightly more inconvenient than in the past for legitimate
non-subscribers, who must perform the self-confirm each time.  For the
occasional msg posted from a non-subscribed address, this will work very
well.  For people that frequently post from alternate addresses, they should
really have all their alternate addresses subscribed and set to NOMAIL.

Just an interesting FYI I discovered while testing this, the message when
finally posted to the list showed two (2) approved-by lines:

Approved-By: [log in to unmask]     <-this is the editor
Approved-By: [log in to unmask]      <-this is the author of the msg

(I did not test the possible variations on 
 send= editor,hold,confirm,non-member.  
That is left as an exercise for others.)

(And FYI for those people who want RFC-2369 Support:

List-Help: <http://listserv.besteffort.com/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=TEST2>,
           <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
List-Owner: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Return-Path: [log in to unmask]
)

BTW, I am running LISTSERV(R) for Windows version 14.4

  Build date:       18 Aug 2005

>Some others use what may be a Modified Kludge:
>
>   FOO-LIST contains
>>  Subscription= Open,Confirm
>>  Send= Editor,Hold       Editor= [log in to unmask],(FOO-POSTERS)
>
>Same here, only FOO-POSTERS is a legitimate list of privileged people that can post, not just a kludge.

Obviously you want members of FOO-POSTERS to send, but do you want members
of FOO-LIST to be able to post msgs or not?  This is not clear from your
explanation.

If you do want members of both lists to post to FOO-LIST, I would suggest

Send= Private,(FOO-POSTERS)

If you want only members of FOO-POSTERS to post, then

Send=(FOO-POSTERS)

If you want something else, there should be enough ideas here to set you on
the right track.