On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:48:05 -0600 Dan Lester said:
>At 12:50 PM 8/8/1997 -0400, Mary Schweitzer wrote:
>Fine.  Get the point.  Won't argue with you.  But....that does NOT solve
>the problem of the spam on the Usenet side.  Your users will get buried in
>it there.  THAT is what makes so many of us counsel against going to Usenet
>any more.

Sorry Dan, but you're just not right.
  a) alot of spammers don't even bother if they see that the group is
     moderated
  b) The Filter keyword takes out alot of the spams without even the
     group's moderators from seeing it

This isn't just guessing here.  *I* run 2 Usenet groups in a mainstream
hierachy (rec.hunting & rec.hunting.dogs) that are moderated by Listserv
lists.  Compared to most unmoderated groups, the spamming in those
groups is virtually non-existant.  It really does provide for the best
of both worlds.  Of course, as the owner, when a spam does show up, I
tend to be rather agressive in attacking it (just look at the Filter
list that those lists share).  And once I get the procmail script called
from the EXIT working, it'll be even better....


>Doing that doesn't get it moderated.  Usenet spoofing of moderator approval
>is laughably simple, and much spam already shows that "approval" on Usenet.
> Yes, you can easily keep it from getting back to your listserv users.

True.  But since most Listserv lists are also Public, we haven't really
lost anything, have we?


>They've been there and done that.  Eric said no.  The techie problems are
>local to whoever is going to do it for you.  Sounds to me like you need to
>talk to your ISP (good luck on yours, plus doubt any will do it for free),
>or if you have connections at a university or elsewhere, then it is time to
>start taking some of the nice folks there out for a lunch, beer, coffee, or
>whatever.  o-)   I'm NOT kidding.  There's more than one way to a geek's
>heart.....

Dan is right here.  This is not a Listserv problem, since Listserv
already has the ability to insert a Newsgroups: tag.  It's a
"configuring INN problem".  The *right* place to look for a solution
is amoung the group of news adminstrators, not list administrators.


>>Well, pardon me, but that's not my experience.  And I don't want to have
>>to write a dissertation on it.  Can my request be respected just as it is
>>without the answer being, "Aw, if you were REAL knowledgeable you wouldn't
>>want to do it"?
>
>Well, I won't repeat that.  But I'll think it.  I'll also note that even if
>you get the newsgroup in bit.listserv.* or as alt.whatever, you've still
>got the problem of having people convince ISPs to add a new group.  Some
>will add whatever new comes down the line, but a great many won't.  If a
>site's feed doesn't provide it, they won't get it either without a bunch of
>extra work.


Correct.  Which is exactly why I adviced going through the tourtous
RFD and CFV process to create the group in one of the big 7.


>>Is there anyplace in clear language that explains how to do what I want
>>to do -- GATE AN EXISTING, MODERATED DISCUSSION LIST TO USENET IN SUCH
>>A WAY THAT NO ONE CAN POST WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE MODERATOR OF THE
>>DISCUSSION LIST?
>
>Not that I know of, and apparently not that others know of.  In part, what
>you want is so unusual these days that not many want to bother with it, at
>least in part due to spam.

I agree with your answer, but not your reason.  The primary reason is
no doubt that both groups (Listserv bigots and Usenet bigots) tend to
ignore the other, citing make believe problems with the other's model.
The truth is, both are useful in differnet types of situations and to
different personal preferences.  If it weren't so, usage of BOTH would
not have experienced the huge growth over the last 5-10 years.


To answer Mary Schweitzer's primary question, I believe your best bet
will be with the author's of INN or other *major* news _server_
programs.