Does LISTSERV 1.8c use more "Received:" headers than 1.8b did?
I now seem to be getting "554 Too many hops 18 (17 max)" once in
a while, and 1.8c always seems to be involved.

One case was on my list was whenever user A posted -- the copy sent
to user B would bounce to me because of this.  Both users had a few
hops inside their universities, and the hops in TREARN made it
too many.  (User A hasn't posted in a while so I don't know
whether this still occurs.)  I don't think it happened before
they went to 1.8c.

Another case occurs with this list (occasionally) and some others.
I subscribe at ISP X, but often forward to ISP Y (for various
reasons).  The 18th hop occurs at ISP Y, and the mail bounces back
to my ISP X account (not the list).  Of course, with just another
header or two, ISP X would bounce it back to the list owner and
I'd never see it; I can't tell whether that happens or not.

Headers from a recent (yesterday) bounced message are below for
those interested in reading such things.  It came out of
listmail.cc.uga.edu with 15 hops already "used" -- one too
many for the forward to succeed.

Is this 17 (or 18) a sendmail limit?  Can it be configured?
(If LISTSERVs need this many hops, perhaps the sendmail folks
should raise this number so that all it catches are true loops.)

I'll probably end up having procmail at ISP X change all the
Received headers to X-Received (or something) before forwarding,
but it seems to me that we're still operating awfully close to the
cliff's edge here.

Cheers,
Stan Ryckman ([log in to unmask])


The headers:

>Final-Recipient: rfc822; [log in to unmask]
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.4.6
>Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:38:54 -0500 (EST)
>Return-Path: [log in to unmask]
>Received: from sunspot.tiac.net ([log in to unmask] [199.0.65.22]) by cleopatra.ultra.net (8.8.5/ult1.04) with ESMTP id XAA32073 for <[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:38:53 -0500 (EST)
>Received: (from stanr@localhost) by sunspot.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.6.6.Beta9) id XAA29006 for [log in to unmask]; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:38:39 -0500 (EST)
>Received: from listmail.cc.uga.edu (listmail.cc.uga.edu [128.192.232.10]) by sunspot.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.6.6.Beta9) with ESMTP id XAA28983 for <[log in to unmask]>; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:38:30 -0500 (EST)
>Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by listmail.cc.uga.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.0a) with SMTP id D0EFF4F0 ; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:38:19 -0500
>Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3553; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:37:20 -0500
>Received: from UGA.CC.UGA.EDU by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with
>          NJE id 3603 for [log in to unmask]; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:37:18
>          -0500
>Received: from UGA (NJE origin SMTPIN@UGA) by UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a)
>          with BSMTP id 7752; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:37:18 -0500
>Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP;
>          Mon, 24 Feb 97 23:37:17 EST
>Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with
>          SMTP id <[log in to unmask]>; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 5:38:26 +0100
>Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP
>          id 1785; Tue, 25 Feb 97 05:38:19 +0100
>Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin LISTSERV@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE
>          (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7903; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 05:38:19 +0100
>Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LISTSERV release 1.8c) with
>          NJE id 6262 for [log in to unmask]; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 05:38:16
>          +0100
>Received: from SEARN (NJE origin SMTPF@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail
>          V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7774; Tue, 25 Feb 1997 05:28:14 +0100
>Received: from UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with
>          TCP; Tue, 25 Feb 97 05:28:13 +0100
>Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3)
>          with BSMTP id 1277; Mon, 24 Feb 97 23:28:01 EST
>Received: from UBVM (NJE origin SMTP@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail
>          V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 5931; Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:28:01 -0500
>Received: from urth.acsu.buffalo.edu by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3)
>          with TCP; Mon, 24 Feb 97 23:28:00 EST
>Received: (qmail 25691 invoked by uid 305); 25 Feb 1997 04:28:09 -0000
>Lines: 8
>X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.15/Emacs 19.34
>Message-ID:  <[log in to unmask]>
>Date:         Mon, 24 Feb 1997 23:28:09 -0500
>Reply-To: LISTSERV give-and-take forum <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: LISTSERV give-and-take forum <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Paul Graham <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject:      duplicate bounces from [log in to unmask]
>Comments: To: [log in to unmask]
>To: Multiple recipients of list LSTSRV-L <[log in to unmask]>