I have been receiving similar distribute problems the last weeks, and hope
anyone can fix this. I would really hate to have my mail shipped to other
people instead of to me...
I don't know, nor have I investigated, which listserv is causing this, but I
suspect...
------------------ original message follows ------------------
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| 0098; Tue, 07 Aug 90 01:24:30 MET
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|Reply-To: VM/XA Discussion List <VMXA-L@DEARN>
|Sender: VM/XA Discussion List <VMXA-L@DEARN>
|From: "Bryan, Jerry" <BRYAN@WVNVM>
|Subject: Open Systems
|In-Reply-To: Message of 08/04/90 at 12:44:50 from [log in to unmask]
|Date: Tue, 7 Aug 1990 01:23:07 MET
|To: Multiple recipients of <VMXA-L@DEARN>
|
|
|>I wonder how much of the following might also be said of IBM, with
|>VAX/VMS changed to VM or MVS?
|> Lee Varian
|> Princeton University
|
|>(c) 1990, CMP Publications, Inc.; Communications Week, 7/30/90, p. 2:
|
|> DEC: First Loss
|> by Anne Knowles
|
|>Boston -- Last Week, Digital Equipment Corp. finally saw red. For the
|>first time in its 33-year history, the computer giant reported a loss.
|> ...
|>DEC's [senior vice president of operations John] Smith blamed an economic
|>slowdown in both the United States and other markets for the poor fourth-
|>quarter showing. But some analysts said the economy is not what is ailing
|>DEC. Robert Herwick, an analyst who tracks DEC for Hambrecht & Quist Inc.,
|>San Francisco, said he is pessimistic about DEC's long-term outlook. He
|>feels the company is not paying attention to the shift to open systems.
|>"The world doesn't want VAX/VMS systems anymore," he said. "The company
|>is kidding itself."
|
|I am not sure what my opinions have to do with anything, including
|VMXA-L, but here goes anyway.
|
| 1. VAX/VMS is dead. It may take 10 or 15 or 20 years to fully expire,
| but it will be subsumed into UNIX. DEC could be in real trouble
| in this environment, or it could flourish, depending on how smart
| the company is.
|
| 2. CMS is in real trouble for the same reason. It might last longer
| than VMS because it is more different from UNIX than VMS is, and
| because of its ties to CP and because it can do things like run
| CICS.
|
| 3. CP is here for a long time, but will grow closer and closer to the
| hardware (cf. Amdahl's MDF and IBM's LPAR), or as an alternative
| interpretation, hardware will get smarter and will look more and
| more like CP.
|
| 4. MVS is in less trouble than CMS and VMS. Notwithstanding all the
| various moves away from batch, you don't run your payroll interactively.
| Many applications are inherently batch. In addition, UNIX is a long
| way from being able to handle things like CICS, DB2, large tape
| libraries, large disk farms (where is SMS for UNIX?), etc.
|
| 5. The RS/6000 is a big winner for IBM. SUN has real problems, as does
| DEC's Ultrix.
|
| 6. Things like AIX on an RS/6000 frontending AIX on a 3090-vector processor
| will be a big winner. However, you have to question whether the 3090
| is really necessary in many cases because the native capabilities of
| the RS/6000 are so good.
|
| 7. DOS on a PC is dead. It may take five to ten years to expire, but
| OS/2 really won the day it was announced. In the short run of
| two or three or five years, there is still a lot of
| money to be made by companies selling DOS products, and a lot of
| money to be lost by companies selling OS/2 products, but we need
| to take a more Japanese type long view of things to see what is going
| on here.
|
| 8. OS/2 and UNIX will become indistinguishable, both to end users and
| to developers. It will not be the case that one or the other wins;
| it will be the case that their functionality will merge.
| The underlying code will not merge, but the interfaces will be
| compatible so that both users and applications can be ported
| easily from one environment to the other.
|
| 9. IBM is in a much better position to survive all this than DEC
| because they are much more committed to getting a piece of the
| UNIX market than is DEC. DEC still sincerely believes that VMS can
| co-exist with, or even beat, UNIX.
|
|a. Standard disclaimer applies
|
|b. Additional non-standard disclaimer -- I have tried and tried to
| like UNIX, but I hate it. It is awful. I grew up with MVT and MVS,
| then CP and CMS, and I am also halfway decent with VMS, and I like
| all of them. Nevertheless, I think UNIX is winning and will win.
|
| 3. CP is here for a long time, but will grow closer and closer to the
| hardware (cf. Amdahl's MDF and IBM's LPAR), or as an alternative
| interpretation, hardware will get smarter and will look more and
| more like CP.
|
| 4. MVS is in less trouble than CMS and VMS. Notwithstanding all the
| various moves away from batch, you don't run your payroll interactively.
| Many applications are inherently batch. In addition, UNIX is a long
| way from being able to handle things like CICS, DB2, large tape
| libraries, large disk farms (where is SMS for UNIX?), etc.
|
| 5. The RS/6000 is a big winner for IBM. SUN has real problems, as does
| DEC's Ultrix.
|
| 6. Things like AIX on an RS/6000 frontending AIX on a 3090-vector processor
| will be a big winner. However, you have to question whether the 3090
| is really necessary in many cases because the native capabilities of
| the RS/6000 are so good.
|
| 7. DOS on a PC is dead. It may take five to ten years to expire, but
| OS/2 really won the day it was announced. In the short run of
| two or three or five years, there is still a lot of
| money to be made by companies selling DOS products, and a lot of
| money to be lost by companies selling OS/2 products, but we need
| to take a more Japanese type long view of things to see what is going
| on here.
|
| 8. OS/2 and UNIX will become indistinguishable, both to end users and
| to developers. It will not be the case that one or the other wins;
| it will be the case that their functionality will merge.
| The underlying code will not merge, but the interfaces will be
| compatible so that both users and applications can be ported
|//VMXA-L JOB Echo=No,Reply-to="MABOGEN@DEARN HAROLD@UGA"
|//To DD *
|SACCVVDE HASARA11 Vincent van den Elzen
|SSCP0003 HASARA11 frank goossens
|SSCP0006 HASARA11 Paul Wielinga SARA Amsterdam NL
|SSCP0010 HASARA11 Victor Marchand
|SSCP0014 HASARA11 Rob v.d. Wal
|SSCP0055 HASARA11 Marieke Tiecke
|SSCP0059 HASARA11 Jules Wolfrat
|RCCSJVA HDETUD1 Jana Vasiljev
|RCOPMRL HDETUD1 Milton Russel
|RCOPROB HDETUD1 Rob van Hoboken
|U001210 HNYKUN11 Peter Gotwalt
|/*
|// DIST2 MAIL FROM=BRYAN@WVNVM I=Y FORW(VIA) HOST(36 36 36 36 36 36 36 36 36 36
|//+ 36)
|//Via DD "DEARN CEARN FRULM11"
|//Data DD *,EOF,Res=Disk
|Date: Mon, 6 Aug 90 09:56:35 EDT
|Reply-To: VM/XA Discussion List <VMXA-L@DEARN>
|Sender: VM/XA Discussion List <VMXA-L@DEARN>
|From: "Bryan, Jerry" <BRYAN@WVNVM>
|Subject: Open Systems
|To:
|In-Reply-To: Message of 08/04/90 at 12:44:50 from [log in to unmask]
|
|>I wonder how much of the following might also be said of IBM, with
|>VAX/VMS changed to VM or MVS?
|> Lee Varian
|> Princeton University
|
|>(c) 1990, CMP Publications, Inc.; Communications Week, 7/30/90, p. 2:
|
|> DEC: First Loss
|> by Anne Knowles
|
|>Boston -- Last Week, Digital Equipment Corp. finally saw red. For the
|>first time in its 33-year history, the computer giant reported a loss.
|> ...
|>DEC's [senior vice president of operations John] Smith blamed an economic
|>slowdown in both the United States and other markets for the poor fourth-
|>quarter showing. But some analysts said the economy is not what is ailing
|>DEC. Robert Herwick, an analyst who tracks DEC for Hambrecht & Quist Inc.,
|>San Francisco, said he is pessimistic about DEC's long-term outlook. He
|>feels the company is not paying attention to the shift to open systems.
|>"The world doesn't want VAX/VMS systems anymore," he said. "The company
|>is kidding itself."
|
|I am not sure what my opinions have to do with anything, including
|VMXA-L, but here goes anyway.
|
| 1. VAX/VMS is dead. It may take 10 or 15 or 20 years to fully expire,
| but it will be subsumed into UNIX. DEC could be in real trouble
| in this environment, or it could flourish, depending on how smart
| the company is.
|
| 2. CMS is in real trouble for the same reason. It might last longer
| than VMS because it is more different from UNIX than VMS is, and
| because of its ties to CP and because it can do things like run
| CICS.
|
| 3. CP is here for a long time, but will grow closer and closer to the
| hardware (cf. Amdahl's MDF and IBM's LPAR), or as an alternative
| interpretation, hardware will get smarter and will look more and
| more like CP.
|
| 4. MVS is in less trouble than CMS and VMS. Notwithstanding all the
| various moves away from batch, you don't run your payroll interactively.
| Many applications are inherently batch. In addition, UNIX is a long
| way from being able to handle things like CICS, DB2, large tape
| libraries, large disk farms (where is SMS for UNIX?), etc.
|
| 5. The RS/6000 is a big winner for IBM. SUN has real problems, as does
| DEC's Ultrix.
|
| 6. Things like AIX on an RS/6000 frontending AIX on a 3090-vector processor
| will be a big winner. However, you have to question whether the 3090
| is really necessary in many cases because the native capabilities of
| the RS/6000 are so good.
|
| 7. DOS on a PC is dead. It may take five to ten years to expire, but
| OS/2 really won the day it was announced. In the short run of
| two or three or five years, there is still a lot of
| money to be made by companies selling DOS products, and a lot of
| money to be lost by companies selling OS/2 products, but we need
| to take a more Japanese type long view of things to see what is going
| on here.
|
| 8. OS/2 and UNIX will become indistinguishable, both to end users and
| to developers. It will not be the case that one or the other wins;
| it will be the case that their functionality will merge.
| The underlying code will not merge, but the interfaces will be
| compatible so that both users and applications can be ported
| easily from one environment to the other.
|
| 9. IBM is in a much better position to survive all this than DEC
| because they are much more committed to getting a piece of the
| UNIX market than is DEC. DEC still sincerely believes that VMS can
| co-exist with, or even beat, UNIX.
|
|a. Standard disclaimer applies
|
|b. Additional non-standard disclaimer -- I have tried and tried to
| like UNIX, but I hate it. It is awful. I grew up with MVT and MVS,
| then CP and CMS, and I am also halfway decent with VMS, and I like
| all of them. Nevertheless, I think UNIX is winning and will win.
|
|
